Alphas, Betas, and Omegas, oh my!

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Re: Alphas, Betas, and Omegas, oh my!

Post by Ami Angelwings on Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:34 am

Given that a lot of MRAs justify stuff as "natural" (like their love of 14 year old girls, and disdain of any woman over 40 30 25 20 16, or "we can't help lusting after you if you wear a short skirt" or etc etc) it's funny that when it comes to hypergamy, female hamster brains, alpha/beta/etc stuff which is apparently SO HARDWIRED that even the feministiest of feminists has no resistance or knowledge of it b/c it's more basic in our brains than nething else... it's something that must be legislated against even tho SUPPOSEDLY, this is the way humans are, always will be and how every society and culture has been built around forever... convenient that "natural" things should be abided by as long as it gives them the sex they want and "natural things" that get in the way of that, should be legislated against xD

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WARNING: big rape trigger warnings and victim blaming below

Post by Ami Angelwings on Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:33 pm

Ever wonder how the Greek system relates to rape?

I was looking through the comments of that infamous Roissy butt-rape post and weirdly (though not weirdly for MRAs) rather than talk about how bad cuckoldry is, most of them want to talk about why rape isn't a big deal (for both men and women, some of them talk about how it's not a big deal for men, but it's a big deal for women cuz evo psych, and others talk about how it's not a big deal for women but it's a big deal for men cuz they lose status), and a lot of them tie the Greek system into it (of course). What's interesting is outside of everybody giving contradictory theories, nobody seems to be arguing with each other about this or the fact that NOT ALL OF THEIR EVO PSYCH/ALT HISTORIES CAN BE TRUE xD There's one girl there telling them that rape IS traumatic... that's the person they're arguing w/ xD

https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2009/12/03/cuckoldry-vs-butt-rape/#comment-149077

There's the thread...

Here's some of the stuff we learn about the Greek system!

“Man would look at a hot chick and never know she’d been raped. Women would look at an otherwise attractive man who had been raped and know something was wrong with him, since psychological devastation would manifest itself in body language, and certainly he would not display the attractive psychological traits of the alpha.”

Okay, so this guy is one of the ones who thinks rape isn't a big deal for women because it's all about status. Rape doesn't affect women cuz you can't tell if women have been raped or not (since confidence, etc doesn't matter for women, just how hot we are) but the trauma will be obvious when we look at men, so rape is bad because it makes men undateable (but not bad for trauma reasons or nething, it's all about dating value).

You know the funny thing about female rape? Women are programmed to have a certain reaction from it: Shutdown, go empty for a while, and adjust to the new society the women was just moved into. In the primeval world rape generally happened when a women was captured in a raid and was now part of a new group. It’s very much a societal reset button.

Rape isn't a big deal for us cuz it's just a big reset button and our past was something out of a fantasy film and when we wake up we just reset to the new men in our surroundings as our new world. o_O

Rape is about sex, not power. It is a strategy used by both very low quality omega males that have almost no mating prospects whatsoever (e.g. illegal immigrant) AS WELL AS very high quality alpha males (e.g. pick your Kennedy) that do not fear sanctions for their actions.

This person doesn't really say whether rape should be legal or not by this though. Because we're hurting the poor omega males by making it illegal, but it's also something those damn alphas do! (how CAN an alpha rape? I thought we ALL WANT THEM ALL THE TIME... wouldn't them wanting to rape us then turn into consensual sex because omfg an alpha wants me? >_> )

I would even wager that legislatures would be less likely to address cuckoldry as perhaps they are more likely to be the “alpha” male in the equation…..especially when you consider their money, status, etc,…

If that is the case, they wouldn’t want their paternity to be revealed. Better for the cuckold to raise their child than to go through a career-destroying expose……
Our legislatures are filled with alphas? o_O I'd watch more CSPAN if that were true.

Spending time alone with a man in his bedroom, drinking with him, and kissing him are certainly indicators that you wanted to have sex.

From the story you have told you did everything in your power to get him to escalate, and dude simply had bad Game.

All that you have illuminated in this indicating that you didn’t want to have sex is that the guy didn’t give you the tingles, because he was bad at flirting. You did nothing to put the brakes on until it was too late. You even spent time alone with him on multiple occasions.

The solution to this would be to not drunkenly kiss him in his room, probably in the middle of the night. That is what you did wrong. It’s also not just tactically incorrect, it is immoral.

You weren’t attracted to him at all, in any way apparently, at all, and sex with a grown man as a grown woman was completely outside the realm of possibility under any circumstances with any man ever and that was made perfectly clear but you still wanted to shove your tongue down his throat? Is that correct?
You were going to do your own little naive emotional and oral ‘pump and dump’, with a guy who probably thought you were really attracted to him because you lead him to believe so, and who probably really liked you back.

Had you had the wherewithal to not lead this guy on and do everything but strip your clothes off and spread eagle on his bed while screaming ‘fuck me’ to invite him to do so you wouldn’t have been raped. Even if the guy is guilty, the extenuating circumstances are absolutely amazing.
This kinda goes back to my thing where people say "I'M TOTALLY NOT VICTIM BLAMING I AM JUST GIVING HELPFUL ADVICE ON HOW TO AVOID RAPE" because when you ask them "then it should have nothing to do with how he's charged, the trial or what his sentence is right? It shouldn't be considered as extenuating circumstances since the responsibility is still 100% on him?" and that tends to be the real issue they're trying to dodge.

But neways... so yeah... we have people who think rape is done by alphas, and others who think rape is done by betas and omegas... in this case, the guy thinks rape is down by awkward betas who are led on and confused (the poor darlings) and rly it's the woman's fault >_>

As far as I can tell, when you put it together (and some of the comments actually have)... guess what it comes out with:

EVERY TYPE OF MAN COULD RAPE xD

Sure, their game theory says that alphas, betas and omegas all rape for different reasons... but... they seem more in-line with shroedinger's rapist than they'd prolly be comfortable with xD

Neways... of course when you get past the ridiculosity of it, it's pretty horrifying how not a big deal rape is to them (even of men, there's plenty who say rape isn't a big deal for men because they don't have the shame of losing sexual status, while others who say it is only because they question their masculinity, but nothing that rly gets that rape can come with serious trauma >_< In fact many say that rape only comes with trauma if you have a feminist victim mentality, otherwise any trauma will vanish quickly)

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Re: Alphas, Betas, and Omegas, oh my!

Post by Ami Angelwings on Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:08 am

Also, I love how that 3rd comment is basically saying "illegal immigrants are the ones committing rape in our society" -_-;; And only an MRA can turn a serious issue like the toxic and fear-mongering dialogue in our media and politics about "illegal" immigrants and the f-ed up ways we come up with to "deal" with them, into being about alphas, betas and omegas -_-;;

I'm sure being "low status" to women is the least of their concerns when it comes to the way our society and government sees them. (apparently women now have green card detectors in our brain too... who knew that being a "legal" citizen was a high status trait?)

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Re: Alphas, Betas, and Omegas, oh my!

Post by MollyRen on Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:16 pm

Buttman wrote:
That's horrible that the fat women can't get the cream of the crop. They could always choose to lose weight.
Dude, that's not how being fat works. Some women have PCOS, which makes it almost impossible to lose weight. And even if you don't have this particular problem, most diets have a huge failure rate.

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Re: Alphas, Betas, and Omegas, oh my!

Post by Nobby on Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:59 pm

MollyRen wrote:
Buttman wrote:
That's horrible that the fat women can't get the cream of the crop. They could always choose to lose weight.
Dude, that's not how being fat works. Some women have PCOS, which makes it almost impossible to lose weight. And even if you don't have this particular problem, most diets have a huge failure rate.

Yup. Something that never ever comes up to the manosphere! I guess they figure that since there's so much weight loss shit marketed to women, that's it's easy to lose weight? Instead of, you know, the exact opposite.

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Re: Alphas, Betas, and Omegas, oh my!

Post by darksidecat on Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:19 pm

I'm not a woman, but I have an unusual presentation of PCOS, hashimotos, and extreme joint issues that make exercise near impossible. Even fat obsessed doctor suggested that I only might be able to lose twenty pounds in six months if I ate less than a thousand calories a day.

Being one of those fat people whose fat comes from all sorts of health issues didn't make me hate or think less of those fat people whose fat doesn't, what it did was teach me just how fat hating and bigoted both society and medical professionals are. My thyroid got so bad I could have died before it was diagnosed, because doctors wrote all of my problems off on me being fat. I've seen how people and how doctors respond to fat bodies, regardless of the cause, and it has jack shit to do with health (I have piles of medical records and pretty extreme health symptoms, somehow the people who scold me over fatness are generally totally not interested in seeing them or hearing about it) and everything to do with hate.


Moving on....

who knew that being a "legal" citizen was a high status trait?

In the US, it is, there is a lot of abuse of immigrants and denial of their civil rights, and immigrants who are spouses of legal citizens have far better legal status than immigrants who do not have an immediate relative (spouse, parent, or unmarried child under 21) who is a US citizen. Of course, people who are undocumented do not reap benefits from marriage to a US citizen that those who have entered the country legally or who are on foreign soil do. Being an undocumented immigrant is a very vulnerable social and legal position in the US, but that doesn't mean they go out and rape people more. It is actually rather silly to assume they would. People who are of lower social status generally do not rape people of higher social status. Rapes up the social heirarchy are far less common than rapes down the social heirarchy (and horizontally).

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Re: Alphas, Betas, and Omegas, oh my!

Post by Ami Angelwings on Sat Dec 10, 2011 9:05 pm

I know that DSC, I meant "high status" in the way MRAs talk about it in relation to their weird straw-wolf way they think we date xD

I didn't mean in terms of legal or social status :\

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Re: Alphas, Betas, and Omegas, oh my!

Post by clairedammit on Sat Dec 10, 2011 10:34 pm

I love you all. Y'all are the perfect antidote to an argument I seem to have found myself in with a bunch of privileged wankers on Facebook. I will hide that post and continue to lurk here. /happy sigh

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Re: Alphas, Betas, and Omegas, oh my!

Post by darksidecat on Sat Dec 10, 2011 10:36 pm

Of course, if social and legal status affects alphaness then, does that mean alphaness can be socially constructed?

Ah...no....evopsych fading....aaaaahhhhhhh!

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Re: Alphas, Betas, and Omegas, oh my!

Post by Ami Angelwings on Sun Dec 11, 2011 12:50 am

They like to basically make it so their evo psych can have modern analogues and still claim that it relates to our mythological "cave days"...

at some point though... basically what they're saying is "being good at stuff is an attractive quality to people who care about that stuff" xD

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Re: Alphas, Betas, and Omegas, oh my!

Post by kladle on Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:30 pm

Anybody here ever hear of "ladder theory"? I used to run into people on the 'net all the time who took it very very seriously, but you don't see it as much as the Alpha/Beta/Omega nonsense anymore. They're pretty damn close though in ideology (only Alphas get to be on the fuck ladder, Betas and Omegas get relegated to the "friends ladder"): http://www.laddertheory.com/

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Re: Alphas, Betas, and Omegas, oh my!

Post by katz on Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:22 pm

So according to our sexbot lover on the main blog...Austin Powers is an alpha.

http://manboobz.com/2011/12/08/how-to-creep-out-the-entire-internet-lovelorn-banker-edition/comment-page-12/#comment-95466

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Re: Alphas, Betas, and Omegas, oh my!

Post by Arks on Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:03 pm

The world's fattest woman has admirers. So do the 50,000 incrimentally-less-fat women that follow her. As do the amputees, the facially disfigured, the mentally disabled and the gingers. For men, being admired is something that takes luck and work to acquire and maintain. For women, it's something that just sort of happens to you, irrelevant of your physical, mental and emotional attributes.

"The world's fattest woman's "admirers" may not actually be good mates for her" and the arguments that follow are a typical example of hypergamy in action. It illustrates the following disparity in the male/female experience:

For a woman, the struggle is to find the right partner.
For a man, the struggle is to find any partner.

If a woman can't find sex and companionship, it's the woman's fault.
If a man can't find sex and companionship, it's the woman's fault.

ergo; no omega women, plenty of lonely men.

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Re: Alphas, Betas, and Omegas, oh my!

Post by MollyRen on Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:10 pm

Arks wrote:The world's fattest woman has admirers. So do the 50,000 incrimentally-less-fat women that follow her. As do the amputees, the facially disfigured, the mentally disabled and the gingers.

Ya know, out of all the things on this list, I never thought "hair color" would be considered a horrible disfigurement.

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Re: Alphas, Betas, and Omegas, oh my!

Post by Ami Angelwings on Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:12 pm

o_O

Men don't have admirers? xD I thought the MRA argument was always that various men you wouldn't expect (i.e. kinda like your list, incl people who have some sort of fame) get female admirers and letters and etc and that proved female hypergamy or something something... now it's the opposite? xD

Besides, now we're counting ppl who objectify and fetishize ppl they've never met but fit some thing that turns them on as... proof of... something? xD

There are ppl (male and female) who fetishize these (and others! you left out... being non-white, being trans, etc) attributes for both men and women... and I'm pretty sure you know that, you just plucked out the part for women to create that unifying theory of trolling xD


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Re: Alphas, Betas, and Omegas, oh my!

Post by MollyRen on Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:15 pm

Arks wrote:For men, being admired is something that takes luck and work to acquire and maintain. For women, it's something that just sort of happens to you, irrelevant of your physical, mental and emotional attributes.

"The world's fattest woman's "admirers" may not actually be good mates for her" and the arguments that follow are a typical example of hypergamy in action.

If hypergamy is real, doesn't that mean that there are at least 10% of men who have admirers?

Also, because men are are ugly, we all like Johnny Depp solely for his body of work, right? This photo has nothing to do with it!

(Actually, reading this over again, it doesn't make as much sense as when I wrote it. But seriously, dude, NO MEN have admirers? Ever? WTF?)


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Re: Alphas, Betas, and Omegas, oh my!

Post by Pervocracy on Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:17 pm

The world's fattest woman has admirers. So do the 50,000 incrimentally-less-fat women that follow her. As do the amputees, the facially disfigured, the mentally disabled and the gingers.
ON WHAT PLANET. Seriously now.

Yes, there are people who fetishize all those things, but there aren't as many fetishists as not-conventionally-beautiful women; not all of the fetishists are willing to actually couple up with one of their fetish objects; and few of them would make a decent partner if they did.

For a woman, the struggle is to find the right partner.
For a man, the struggle is to find any partner.
Bullshit. No man is willing to fuck, much less date, any partner. And I don't blame them.

If you're not willing to date:
-Someone who thinks it's funny to hit you and it doesn't count because "tee hee, it's only a little girly slap, I was kidding"
-Someone who never really got in the showering habit
-Someone who's emotionally abusive
-Someone who believes reptilian aliens rule the Earth
-Someone who hates your ethnic group
-Someone who only listens to the music you hate most, and plays it constantly really loudly, and says "I can only fall asleep with my music on"
-Someone who has one tooth
-Someone who eats their boogers, then offers to share
-Someone who takes pictures of you naked while you're asleep and posts them on 4chan

Then you're not willing to date anyone. And like I said, I don't blame you; it's entirely reasonable to have standards. But don't pretend like you don't.

If a woman can't find sex and companionship, it's the woman's fault.
If a man can't find sex and companionship, it's the woman's fault.
At least you spelled it out.

Women: officially the cause of everything wrong with the world. God I was an asshole to get born one of them. I should have made better choices.

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Re: Alphas, Betas, and Omegas, oh my!

Post by Ami Angelwings on Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:18 pm

Usually the response to that Molly, is that they'll point to how male serial killers have admirers and that's proof we want to be raped and killed by alphas xD (and that killing is an alpha trait!)

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Re: Alphas, Betas, and Omegas, oh my!

Post by Ami Angelwings on Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:19 pm

@Holly I think his point is "they should not be getting ANYBODY who likes them at all" >_>

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Re: Alphas, Betas, and Omegas, oh my!

Post by Ami Angelwings on Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:23 pm

Yes, there are people who fetishize all those things, but there aren't as many fetishists as not-conventionally-beautiful women; not all of the fetishists are willing to actually couple up with one of their fetish objects; and few of them would make a decent partner if they did.

As somebody who gets creepy chasers and fetishizers (for TWO qualities of me e_e) a lot, I second this. None of them actually care about me as a person, or even would want to actually DATE me, or even have mutually satisfying sex, they just want me as an object for them to act out their fantasies (whatever they may be) and they're not interested in me having thoughts, feelings, or desires of my own >_> Often it's just to satisfy their own curiosities. >_>

But yeah, I think Arks' main point is "there should be no way anybody should be attracted, fetish or not, to any of these freaks, and that they are proves that life is horribly unfair to me" xD

I do like that he was honest that everything is the woman's fault tho xD

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Re: Alphas, Betas, and Omegas, oh my!

Post by Pervocracy on Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:24 pm

By the way, the world's fattest man is married:



He's unemployed, too. He is not a millionaire and he does not resemble Brad Pitt. But I dunno, maybe he's tall. Or real good at negging and kino escalation. Or they, like, enjoy each other's company, ha ha ha I slay me.


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Re: Alphas, Betas, and Omegas, oh my!

Post by MollyRen on Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:27 pm

I am still wondering why Arks put "gingers" on that list of "horrible" attributes. Has he never heard of Ron Weasley?

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Re: Alphas, Betas, and Omegas, oh my!

Post by Ami Angelwings on Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:32 pm

Baron Blackheart told me that discrimination of people with red hair is still a big thing in the UK, so maybe it's a localization thing, and b/c of where Arks lives (or lived), it's still in his mindset that being a redhead is a horrible thing that he'd never want to date or something.

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Re: Alphas, Betas, and Omegas, oh my!

Post by MollyRen on Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:33 pm

Ami Angelwings wrote:Baron Blackheart told me that discrimination of people with red hair is still a big thing in the UK...

Crumbs. Really? : /

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Re: Alphas, Betas, and Omegas, oh my!

Post by Ami Angelwings on Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:36 pm

I have no experience with it either in Canada...

Looking on wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_hair#Prejudice_and_discrimination_against_redheads

In modern-day UK, the words "ginger" or "ginga" are sometimes derogatorily used to describe red-headed people ("ginger" is not often considered insulting; the abbreviation "ginge" is much more commonly used derogatorily), with terms such as "gingerphobia" (hatred towards redheads)[55] or "gingerism" (prejudice against redheads)[54] used by the British media. In Britain, redheads are also sometimes referred to disparagingly as "carrot tops" and "carrot heads". (The comedian "Carrot Top" uses this stage name.) "Gingerism" has been compared to racism, although this is widely disputed, and bodies such as the UK Commission for Racial Equality do not monitor cases of discrimination and hate crimes against redheads.[54] A UK woman recently won an award from a tribunal after being sexually harassed and receiving abuse because of her red hair;[56] a family in Newcastle upon Tyne, England, was forced to move twice after being targeted for abuse and hate crime on account of their red hair;[57] and in 2003, a 20 year old was stabbed in the back for "being ginger".[58] In May 2009, a British schoolboy committed suicide after being bullied for having red hair.[59] The British singer Mick Hucknall, who believes that he has repeatedly faced prejudice or been described as ugly on account of his hair color, argues that Gingerism should be described as a form of racism.[60][61]

In December 2009 British supermarket chain Tesco was forced to withdraw a Christmas card which had the image of a child with red hair sitting on the lap of Santa Claus, and the words: "Santa loves all kids. Even ginger ones" after customers complained the card was too offensive.[66]

In October 2010, Harriet Harman, the former Equality Minister in the British government under Labour, faced accusations of prejudice, after she described the red-haired Treasury secretary Danny Alexander as a "ginger rodent".[67] Alexander responded to the insult by stating that he was "proud to be ginger".[68] Harman was subsequently forced to apologise for the comment, after facing criticism for prejudice against a minority group.[69]

In September 2011, Cryos International, one of the world's largest sperm banks, announced that it would no longer accept donations from red-haired men due to low demand from women seeking artificial insemination.[70]

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Re: Alphas, Betas, and Omegas, oh my!

Post by Ami Angelwings on Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:37 pm

This is getting pretty deraily btw since now it's all about Arks and his prejudices... xD


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Re: Alphas, Betas, and Omegas, oh my!

Post by MollyRen on Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:38 pm

I think you scared him off, Ami. Razz

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Re: Alphas, Betas, and Omegas, oh my!

Post by Arks on Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:48 pm

'Lower your standards' gets thrown at men by women a lot, but I know personally that it's full of shit. Hypergamy applies to women on all levels - no matter how overweight or boring, they always have enough options and offers that they can just sit back and take their pick from the tidal wave of dicks flying at them and be guaranteed a better deal than they deserve. So ugly fat chicks end up with good-looking, slim, intelligent, talented and witty men like myself (if we're lucky), while women just below or equal to our level are barging past us for a shot on Plank Megadick's cock carousel. Women habitually dating up - how is this not hypergamy?

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Re: Alphas, Betas, and Omegas, oh my!

Post by MollyRen on Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:51 pm

Arks wrote:'Lower your standards' gets thrown at men by women a lot, but I know personally that it's full of shit. Hypergamy applies to women on all levels - no matter how overweight or boring, they always have enough options and offers that they can just sit back and take their pick from the tidal wave of dicks flying at them and be guaranteed a better deal than they deserve.

"Tidal wave of dicks" is my new favorite MRA phrase. Forget the cock carousel, Imma gonna get my boogie board! Very Happy

Arks wrote:So ugly fat chicks end up with good-looking, slim, intelligent, talented and witty men like myself (if we're lucky), while women just below or equal to our level are barging past us for a shot on Plank Megadick's cock carousel. Women habitually dating up - how is this not hypergamy?

God, you're a fat hating asshat, aren't you? So fat *people* can't be good looking, talented, intelligent, or witty? If this is how you feel about fat ladies, how the fuck do you treat fat men?


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Re: Alphas, Betas, and Omegas, oh my!

Post by Pervocracy on Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:51 pm

Arks wrote:'Lower your standards' gets thrown at men by women a lot, but I know personally that it's full of shit.
Not by me! Of course men should have standards! It's poor form to whine constantly if no one meets them, though. You're entitled to your standards, but you're not entitled to a partner. This may mean you're single sometimes and that's okay. Happens to women all the time too.

Hypergamy applies to women on all levels - no matter how overweight or boring, they always have enough options and offers that they can just sit back and take their pick from the tidal wave of dicks flying at them and be guaranteed a better deal than they deserve. So ugly fat chicks end up with good-looking, slim, intelligent, talented and witty men like myself (if we're lucky), while women just below or equal to our level are barging past us for a shot on Plank Megadick's cock carousel. Women habitually dating up - how is this not hypergamy?
A TIDAL WAVE OF DICKS.

Oh Arks.

The things you're saying are so not-from-Earth it's not worth saying much more. Go outside sometime and discover this wacky thing called a "couple." They come in all types! Really! This is one of those things, like "rabbits exist," that I never expected to have to prove!


Last edited by Pervocracy on Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:57 pm; edited 1 time in total

Pervocracy

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